Poll: Lists that should be official: nominations due April 29


#106

@Gorro: The David di Donatello list was auto-nominated. I added your other nomination.

@mathiasa: Midnight Movies has been auto-nominated. I added your other 2 nominations.

@WalterNeff, @Minkin, @Onderhond, @TreadwayNathan: I added your nominations.

@Giversen: Dansk Spillefilm was auto-nominated (on my spreadsheet it’s listed as DFI’s Top 100 Danish Films). Another possible choice for a Danish list is Gyldendal’s Guide to Danish Movies, but the DFI list performed better in the poll 3 years ago. I added your other nomination.


#107

I’m right there with you. I agree that a list of just oscar winners is a good idea, it keeps the list more focused on quality and also cuts the list way down. I don’t know if that list exists right now, but here are links to all of the winners individually if we need to make a combined list:

Best Actor: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/academy+award+best+actor/moviedearest/

Best Actress: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/academy+award+best+actress/moviedearest/

Best Supporting Actor: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/academy+award+best+supporting+actor/moviedearest/

Best Supporting Actress: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/academy+award+best+supporting+actress/moviedearest/

And I also agree that my second list isn’t ideal—I just couldn’t find a better ranked list anywhere after doing a little bit of research.


#108

I’ll ask moviedearest if he want to make a combined list, so you can nominate that if you like.


#109

@mjf314: yes. you already wrote that. I proposed another list instead, ser above, billboard‘s top30 music video‘s.


#110

@Verhoeven: I didn’t add Second Run because it’s a list of DVD releases, but I added your other nominations.

@mathiasa: I added the music video list. Are any of the other music video lists worth nominating (e.g. NME, Pitchfork, Slant)? I don’t know if they’re good lists, but they were mentioned in the music video thread on the iCM forum.

@sunflower983: That Bulgarian list looks like a personal list so I didn’t add it.

@GroupCaptainLionelMandrake: I added your nomination.


#111

Why are lists of distributors not allowed, Mjf314?


#112

Distributor lists aren’t allowed because they’re not just about which films the list creator thinks are deserving, but they’re also influenced by things like money and whether or not they’re able to obtain the distribution rights.


#113

David Ehrlich’s 25 best of the year
ongoing from 2010
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/david+ehrlichs+25+best+of+the+year/cayh/
176 at the moment
each year 25 movies get added to the bottom of the list.
Why? I feel like ICM has a bias to older and more classic movies and that recent good indie productions from all over the world are underrepresented, mostly because the country lists aren’t updated always, and besides the TSPDT 21st century list, movies only have a chance to be official basically through being a box office hit or a very popular list like Reddit / IMDb 10’s, leaving good indie productions unofficial.

source: David Ehrlich is a respected film critic for IndieWire


#114

‘‘Film festival lists aren’t allowed because they’re not just about which films the list artistic director thinks are deserving, but they’re also influenced by things like money and whether or not they’re able to obtain the distribution rights.’’

The same applies to film festivals. Are the films ready in time? Why no more Netflix films in the main competition of Cannes? Why does a producer choose Berlin instead of Cannes? Why does Cannes skip the new Xavier Dolan? Should film festivals screen films that are not finished yet, such as Enter the Void a few years ago?

Cannes wanted to screen Elle in the main competition but also had to take Aquarius from the procudent. Why would he? Why did Berlin reject Son or Saul? Why so many Italian films in Venice? That is all part of it. Learn to accept it.

Second Run is a special, different distributor with a clear signature for World(Art)Cinema.


#115

I’m not sure why award lists are allowed and distributor lists aren’t. I’ll talk to the other moderators about it.


#116

I would agree that indiscriminate “everything that was chosen for a film festival” and “everything released by a distributor” suffer from similar problems. In fact, there can often be close relations between the two, so that a festival might get first refusal on a certain distributor’s films as long as they also play a few of what are the modern equivalent of “B-films”.

Festival awards lists are different, as they have had a second filter of a jury selection that is hopefully not influenced by the commercial concerns of the festival. Things like the “In Competition at Cannes” list are halfway between these: they have been selected from everything playing at the festival by a jury, but I still think there’s a bit of horse-trading and favouritism going on at this level, which is why I think the “Grand Prix” and “Jury Prize” lists are better.


#117

I think that’s a good point. I would be ok with removing the nominee lists, but I’ll wait for the other moderators to comment before I do anything. The winner lists have problems too, but I think fewer problems than the nominee lists or the distributor lists. The nominee lists didn’t do well in the poll 3 years ago.


#118

I don’t know. I kind of feel like we are losing sight of things. Surely, the chief objective should be to come up with lists that moviegoers are interested in completing (beyond filmographies). I mean, that’s what is going to attract most new members to iCM - the ease of keep tracking of whether you have seen all the Oscar Best Picture nominees or TSPDT films, and so on - goals that many budding film lovers are likely to have.

From that point of view, I can’t imagine most budding moviegoers going “ooh, so great to find a site where I can track my progress on each of the dozens of BFI Screen Guides that keep getting made official”. I can, however, see more film fans having an interest in getting through as many films as possible that have screened at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival over the years - as well as many films as possible released on the prestigious Second Run film label.

And surely when you talk about something like the Oscars, distribution and money factors certainly come into play. FYC posters, availability of screeners and so on are major factors. And it’s not always a matter of quality, but rather who has the best campaign, who has been drummed up for so long as finally deserving a win.

Just my two cents.


#119

Compariing Film Awards to distributors is just absurd. How is the shortlist at Cannes = whatever like 30 films a month Kino decides to release?

Film Awards: Jury / critical group chooses from what has been submitted to them - to create short list of what they deem to be the best metric of quality.

Distributor: Purchase rights to whatever they think can make a return on their investment. The pool is selected from whatever hasn’t been spoken for already. There’s hundreds of distributors all fighting for the same rights to films, and whoever has the biggest pocketbook / best deals with studios and companies wins out on those deals (usually its Criterion / Shout Factory). But these things are fluid and rights change hands every 5-10 years with many of these companies (as you can only make so much money with the same product for so long until you either need a new edition or let someone else who’s more interested put out another edition). Why not have make official the list “films streaming on Hulu” - as its just whatever films Hulu can get the rights to at this moment, which isn’t any different than any other distributor.

So, pretty much every distributor wishes they could release something like Seven Samurai, or 2001, or James Bond - but those rights are locked up with other companies. So its not a metric of quality of even curation, but what they can realistically get access to through $$ - for if VS or Second Run had like $10 million laying around, they’d start looking different. I will say that VS + Second Run are small operations who are really picking up a lot of the scraps that everyone else has passed over, which makes their lists more interesting than say Twilight Time or Kino - but this is only a result of their financial situation rather than anything more noble.

Distributors are far more akin to a Filmography than anything (hell, even a lot of these distributors try to go after certain directors when they can - like Criterion with Kurosawa / Bergman).

I know a list like Twilight Time will be more popular than “Top Kyrgyzstan films from critic X” - but that doesn’t erase any of the above problems with TT. Unofficial lists do exist for a reason! If Twilight Time wants to fork over money to make their list official, then that’s a different matter.


#120

I looked at that official list a few months back, and then last week I borrowed a copy of this book and thought that since there were so many films mentioned in it, it would make a great list for here. Didn’t realise it was the same book.

It looks like the original official list only uses films referenced in the index - the author talks about so many more though.


#121

Festival List : La semaine de la critique
Each year, since 1962, the french critics’ syndicate select a list of 10 films among over 3000 seen… They are then screened at the Cannes Film Festival.
The purpose of this Cannes parallel event is to help notice young directors, as it only includes 1st and 2nd features. Many great directors, including is Marker, Denys Arcand, Bernardo Bertolucci, Jean Eustache, Philippe Garel, Barbet Schroeder, Ken Loach, Merzak Allouache, Romain Goupil, Leos Carax, Amos Gitai, Wong Kar-wai, Arnaud Desplechin, Benoît Poelvoorde, Guillermo del Toro, Jacques Audiard, Kevin Smith, François Ozon, Andrea Arnold or Gaspar Noé were discovered and brought to light through this narrow selection.

The list currently counts 505 films, and increases by 10 every year…

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/semaine+de+la+critique/cinephage/

Source :
http://www.semainedelacritique.com/en/la-semaine-de-la-critique-and-its-missions


#122

For those who do not work in the film industry, it is useful to know the following. There are distributors who make purchases based on scripts or directors. So before the film is actually there they buy it. Artificial EYE is a good example of this. KINO does anything and everything.

But there are still distributors in the world who really do ‘scouting’. Looking for new talented debuts, following authors and certain film countries. But before they buy something they have actually seen it. That is a big difference.

Three examples. Second Run in England, Contact Film in the Netherlands and Cinema Guild in America. These are distributors who release around ten contemporary feature films, documentaries and classics on an annual basis. Sometimes more and sometimes less.

They have a clear signature. Second Run focuses mainly on (obscure) East-Europe cinema. Contact Film focuses mainly on existential, religious and spiritual films. Often with powerful women in the lead, etcetera.

In a time where everything can be downloaded and where everything is ‘free’, it is time for ICM to focus on distributors. This way you also promote the purchase of DVDs / BRs.

Which, incidentally, does not mean that 10 lists must be added immediately.


#123

If you say Semaine de la Critique, you should definitely consider Venice International Film Critics’ Week. By accidentally I made the list last week:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/venice+international+film+critics+week/verhoeven/

''Founded by Lino Micciché in 1984, the Venice International Film Critics’ Week (Settimana Internazionale della Critica) has been from the beginning committed to finding, promoting and consolidating new voices and emerging talents of world cinema.

For these reasons, the section, which is independently organized by the Sindacato Nazionale Critici Cinematografici Italiani (SNCCI) – Italian National Union of Film Critics – within the Venice International Film Festival, has for some years now exclusively proposed debut feature films to an audience of cinephiles, film industry professionals and hopefully an increasing number of film goers.’’

In short, they select seven debuts every year - very strict selection - that’s why they have discovered and brought a lot of strong, recognizable directors throughout the years. To name a few: Pedro Costa, Harmony Korine, Alex van Warmerdam, Zeki Demirkubuz, Rian Johnson, Pablo Trapero, Kenneth Lonergan, Vlado Skafar, Bryan Singer, Mike Leigh, John Hillcoat, Olivier Assayas, Kevin Reynolds, Nacer Khemir, etcetera.

But after Cannes, Venice, Berlin, Locarno and Toronto, Rotterdam (IFFR) really comes. Of the first four, the main prize has already been accepted at ICM - Toronto has only had a competition for two years and therefore is not (yet) needed - but now it is really time that the IFFR is taken seriously. I rather see the IFFR finally get recognition with the Tiger Award.


#124

I went ahead and did this.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/academy+awards+for+acting--winners/treadwaynathan/


#125

I was going to nominate the MST3K list as well, glad to see it was already done!